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Show More. You need to upgrade your Adobe Flash Player to watch this video. Download it from Adobe. The city attorney's office is seeking more information on a Sunday morning incident at the Minneapolis apartment of Brooks and his year-old roommate, who reported no injuries.

Brooks was arrested on the suspicion of fifth-degree misdemeanor domestic assault after a call. He was released from Hennepin County jail Monday afternoon without charges filed.

Gophers coach P. Fleck said Wednesday on his FOX 9 show that Brooks was going to practice Thursday for the first time after the incident.

Brooks has been sidelined all season by a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his knee. Fleck said Tuesday that Brooks was medically cleared to play last Sunday.

The Gophers' plan has been to play Brooks, a true senior, in up to four games this season; that's the participation limit a new NCAA rule allows without costing a player a year of eligibility.

Brooks is expected to return to Minnesota for the season. Though without details I can't say that's what happened here, I wouldn't be totally surprised if some idiot elected judge heard about Florida's new law and decided it meant he had to let these guys go.

Although I thought that elected judges typically only handled minor criminal cases misdemeanor stuff , not felony matters. Maybe someone like Faramir can weigh in here, assuming anyone can even track down the details of the case.

Ars of Ares wrote: BarCode wrote: I also have to say that the stench of racism is all over this from how the young man was suspected of being a criminal and suspicious by Zimmerman to the way the police handled it subsequently.

I will post links to calls when I get to a computer that can access them I knew I had read the account of 'witness tampering' somewhere: "Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.

The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, that it was Zimmerman who cried for help, the witness told ABC News. My strong suspicion is because the victim was a young black male.

BarCode wrote: Ars of Ares wrote: BarCode wrote: I also have to say that the stench of racism is all over this from how the young man was suspected of being a criminal and suspicious by Zimmerman to the way the police handled it subsequently.

There was also the fact that the person yelling for help abruptly ceased when the shots rang out. Quote: "Self defense is self defense, whether it's a gang member or any person on the street," says John Eagen, Andrae Tyler's Attorney.

But for the family of year-old Michael Jackson who was shot and killed during the exchange of fire that night back in , they might think differently.

With a clean slate, but remorse for what happened, Tyler says he's thankful for a second chance. I finally got myself on the right track and I know what I need to be doing from now on," says Andrae Tyler.

Tyler says he's been working on his G. The manslaughter charges against the other defendant Jeffrey Brown have also been dropped, but he's serving a 5 year sentence for his involvement in the first shooting that took place that same night.

Edit: put some tags and context since not on mobile. Seems the prosecution attempted to prove that the defendant instigated the conflict, and were unable to do so.

It seems the courts final ruling was based upon "whether the defendants had a right to defend themselves regardless of whether they were gang members".

To be fair, the law made no distinction on that particular point before or after "Stand Your Ground", nor necessarily should it.

Frankly something like this could have easily happened before "Stand Your Ground". The law merely ended the requirement that someone engaged in self-defense affirmatively prove that they did everything possible to avoid violence and lacked any avenue of retreat.

So if in a similar situation someone with a gang-affiliation were able to prove that they attempted to retreat say they ran when attacked but found themselves cornered , you could still get a scenario whereby someone with a gang affiliation shot someone and was acquitted.

The final entry in that article mentions that the prosecution files an appeal, but it ends there. So it seems there may be more to the story.

I can't find anything about the appeal going to trial, so I'm guessing the appeal was declined. I don't know how to look it up directly.

To be fair, the law makes no distinction on that particular point, nor necessarily should it. And that ought to be a gigantic red fucking flag.

Two gangs can 'rumble' and the survivors, who showed up with the intent to do murder, can all plead self-defense, just because the other side ALSO showed up to do murder.

That's fucking NUTS. It's essentially a license to simply be the survivor, and commit all crimes in an absence of credible witnesses.

I disagree. Quote: The scenario I have playing out in my mind is a dumbass who imagines himself to be a cop, correcting the injustices he sees in the world.

If it went down like this, which I agree sounds like the most likely option, then clearly Zimmerman's intent was to provoke an altercation.

An altercation that would justify him using the threat of force i. Now I know the law likely wouldn't see it that way, but from a common sense standpoint that's what it looks like to me.

Yeah, the scenario eXcelon mapped out there is textbook Murder 2. Chiaroscuro wrote: And that ought to be a gigantic red fucking flag.

The problem was that the prosecution failed to prove the points you made regarding some sort of "rumble" entered into by both sides. And it's not like it's inconceivable that someone with a gang affiliation might actually be ambushed without ever willingly entering the fight, that happens all the time.

One of the firearms instructors I've worked with is also an attorney, and he gives a pretty good seminar on self-defense law. I forget the exact legal terminology, but there's a specific concept related to "fighting" ie: violence entered into willingly by both sides which typically negates protections in self-defense law.

He pointed out that it's much harder to prove self-defense in that kind of situation, though not impossible: For example if one made the mistake of getting into a fist-fight with someone stupid, but it happens , but the other guy escalated to weapons or otherwise presented some sort of deadly threat, one would first need to signal that they were no longer a willing participant in the altercation before one would be justified in deadly force.

This is an excerpt from Pennsylvania law, which similarly has no "duty to retreat" in public, functionally equivalent to "stand your ground".

Quote: 18 Pa. If you provoke the conflict, you're no longer the innocent party. Granted this is PA law, not FL law, but one would think there would be something similar.

And if there isn't something like this in FL law, then that's the problem, not the question of whether or not one has a duty to retreat first.

I don't think Florida's law is identical, and even if so, it's clearly NOT being interpreted as such. I'm trying to reply, you're editing your post, i'm re-reading and trying to re-edit I'm done tonight.

Chiaroscuro wrote: I don't think Florida's law is identical, and even if so, it's clearly NOT being interpreted as such.

It may well differ in important ways, but my point is that the "provocation" clause has nothing in particular to do with "Stand Your Ground".

Pennsylvania recently repealed it's "duty to retreat" in public provisions, though the law was billed as an "Enhanced Castle Doctrine" rather than "Stand Your Ground" nothing more than marketing , but the section that defined justifiable force including the provocation clause were unchanged.

That said, it's not clear to me that Florida doesn't have a similar provision. If we're discussing the Tallahasse gang-banger case, the prosecution simply failed to prove that the defendant provoked the exchange, and as noted gang-affiliation doesn't preclude self-defense.

If we're talking about the Trayvon Martin situation, that hasn't gone to court yet, but if it does I suspect that a similar "provocation" clause will be used against him.

Chiaroscuro wrote: double-damn it. No worries. Someday I'll remember that we actually have a preview function now. Though it would be nice if it were near the "Submit Post" button, instead of on the opposite side.

However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if : 1 He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or 2 Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s.

That pretty much describes perfectly the principals I was trying to describe above. By provoking the confrontation, one loses the protection of the law.

Once one provokes or willingly enters into the confrontation, the duty to retreat is essentially reinstated before one may lawfully use lethal force.

This reads exactly the same as the way the attorney I spoke of described Pennsylvania law. The victim was smaller and didn't have a weapon. How in the world could the killer have reasonably believed he was in danger of imminent death or great bodily injury?

Ars of Ares. Seventeen year old Trayvon Martin was shot to death by a self-appointed "neighborhood watch captain" named George Zimmerman on a rainy night three weeks ago.

He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. Ars Legatus Legionis et Subscriptor. He had iced tea and Skittles.

Freepers are dogpiling on Zimmerman. I'm responding to a comment made in the Gun Control thread here, where it's on-topic: Alamout wrote:.

It's good that they're investigating the case, but it's annoying that the court of public opinion seems to have made up its mind.

Ars of Ares wrote:. BarCode wrote:. I'd have no problem with Zimmerman being released on bail, I don't get the impression that he's an imminent threat.

Pocky Is God. CUclimber wrote:. Tribus: compared to the people I was talking about, he's a bastion of open-mindedness.

Anechoic wrote:. SYG has been used by gang members at gang fights to get off of what would otherwise be felony murder shooting each other at a gang turf war ,.

In the majority of the cases, the person's use of force was excused by prosecutors and the courts.

Brooks is expected to return to Minnesota for the season. Gophers freshman quarterback Zack Annexstad has seven interceptions and four touchdowns in three Big Ten games this season, including two picks in last week's loss to second-ranked Ohio State.

But Fleck pinned only one of those against the Buckeyes on Annexstad. Flech said the first interception in the first quarter was a jump ball that U receiver Rashod Bateman should have won instead of Buckeyes' Kendall Sheffield.

You either get a pass interference call or break up the pass or you catch it. Those are your options. The second interception in the fourth quarter was the byproduct of Annexstad not looking off safety Isaiah Pryor before throwing and putting too much arch under the ball for an easy pick by Pryor.

Fleck also noted that Annexstad was facing pressure in his face when he threw. The Gophers took starting defensive tackle O. There have been accounts from another black family living in the subdivision whose teenage son was harassed by Zimmerman, and he apparently showed up at their door with the police accusing their son of being involved in some recent thefts.

Normally police will show up at the callers house and their their statement, and then visit the other residence to get their side of the story and continue the investigation, not invite the caller to along.

I could be reading too much into this, but that suggest to me that he was friendly with those officers. BarCode wrote: I also have to say that the stench of racism is all over this from how the young man was suspected of being a criminal and suspicious by Zimmerman to the way the police handled it subsequently.

I have a hard time swallowing that. It's easy to believe the police got lazy because there were no witnesses.

I will post links to calls when I get to a computer that can access them. Quote: I'd have no problem with Zimmerman being released on bail, I don't get the impression that he's an imminent threat I dunno-- someone who actively stalked and killed an innocent kid in his neighborhood sounds like a threat to me.

Ars of Ares wrote: I have a hard time swallowing that. I'm certainly willing to believe that the police got lazy.

On the other hand do you'd think they'd exhibit the same laziness if the roles were reversed? Somehow I suspect not.

Perhaps not overt racism, but there probably is a tendency to assume that the black teen is the aggressor. Let's face it, police departments spend a disproportionate amount of their time arresting black teenage males who very much are guilty.

It's hard to prevent the human brain from making those sort of connections, no matter how otherwise liberal and enlightened you may be.

That doesn't justify laziness. Think this is what it comes down to. Witnesses said it was Martin, Zimmerman says it was him. The feds will do voice analysis on the recording, and if it's Martin, things won't go well for Zimmerman or the local police.

How the fuck is chasing someone and shooting them "self defence"? Is the Stand Your Ground law supposed to be basically be a get out of jail free card for people, regardless of the situation at hand, claim they feel they were in danger?

I could shoot someone and just lie and say I felt he was threatening me. No witnesses, right? It would seem and I'll let a jury decide that the circumstances show the kid retrospectively wasn't a threat, wasn't armed and likely minding his own business.

If the neighborhood watch guy felt "threatened" then there' something wrong with him. I'd say shooting the watch guy and claiming you felt threatened with a known child shooter walking around your neighborhood.

Assuming no witnesses, well.. I posted at length in the Gun Control thread, but I think my closing sentence sums up my opinion succinctly: It's not "self defense" when you're the assailant.

This story wants to make me cry. That poor kid. That fat bastard needs to get charged with murder.

Kid was shot for being black. CUclimber wrote: Quote: I'd have no problem with Zimmerman being released on bail, I don't get the impression that he's an imminent threat I dunno-- someone who actively stalked and killed an innocent kid in his neighborhood sounds like a threat to me.

I'm just speculating here, as are we all, but I suspect this wasn't a case of murderous intent. The scenario I have playing out in my mind is a dumbass who imagines himself to be a cop, correcting the injustices he sees in the world.

He sees a kid he thinks is up to no good, probably filled with outrage at all of the criminals running free and wreaking havoc, and is already amped up on adrenaline as he approaches the kid.

He's probably a bit scared and freaked out himself, after all he thinks he's approaching a criminal. I can see him stepping in front of the kid, cutting off his path, and the kid scared and freaked out himself picks up pace and maybe shoulder-checks him as he attempts to escape.

Now the dumbass thinks he's being attacked, not realizing that he basically forced this exact response, and pulls his gun and starts firing. That's how I'm imagining it went down anyways, it's entirely possible something else entirely happened.

Possible options range from him hunting down and murdering the kid in cold blood, to him approaching with a smile and a wave and the kid attacking him unprovoked.

I strongly suspect both of those extreme scenarios are implausible based on the limited information I have though.

That he showed with them doesn't mean they brought him, he could've called them, and led them o the house, then interjected himself.

Then again, given how happy to hide this the local yokels were, maybe they did. Some people agree there should be an investigation, that he was too high on his own imagined authority, but it's hardly a dogpile.

I didn't bookmark it lunch at work but the LA Times had an article up earlier I can't find it now they have so many about this case, detailing the Stand Your Ground law in FL.

SYG has been used by gang members at gang fights to get off of what would otherwise be felony murder shooting each other at a gang turf war , by drunks getting belligerent in bars, and a few other truly ridiculous examples of exploiting a law to ensure lots of 'unwanted people' kill each other off.

The short list read like a satire, a parody of what Concealed-Carry laws lead to, then you realize that it's real. Without debating CC laws, I think the problem is that FL followed up a lot of pro-gun rights laws with some asinine pro-justification laws, instead of strict consequence of decision laws.

That is, instead of creating a structure in society where you CAN wear or conceal a firearm but if you use it, you're obligated to suffer the consequences of your decision, they created a very real 'shoot first, ask questions later' society.

Like I said plenty of other states have similar laws, without these sort of outcomes. So either Florida's law is materially different, which I doubt, or the difference is in application and interpretation.

For starters I'd love to know how a gunfight between gang members results in a no-bill from a prosecutor.

I'm having trouble imagining a gunfight between two rival gangs where all of the participants had clean criminal records, using guns they purchased lawfully, and in possession of valid concealed carry permits.

Which means that a prosecutor has several options for criminal charges, even ignoring the particulars of the shootout itself.

Quote: SYG has been used by gang members at gang fights to get off of what would otherwise be felony murder shooting each other at a gang turf war , I'm skeptical.

That doesn't mean it's worked. The St. Petersburg Times article on the SYG law that is the source of that particular talking point.

Quote: In the majority of the cases, the person's use of force was excused by prosecutors and the courts. Proponents say that means the law is working, allowing people to protect themselves without having to ponder legalities in the heat of an attack.

You don't have to wait to see how much of a victim you're going to be. You don't have to wait for the first bone to break. But the law has also been used to excuse violence in deadly neighbor arguments, bar brawls, road rage — even a gang shoot-out — that just as easily might have ended with someone walking away.

Quote: In , two gangs in Tallahassee got into a shoot-out. A year-old boy was killed. A judge dismissed charges against the shooters, citing "stand your ground.

On the radio I heard the following items about Zimmerman: He applied to police school or whatever it is called to become a cop but was turned down.

His record includes assaulting a police officer, though it is expunged or something. And the police don't actually know where he is at the moment, he could have left the state.

The local police very much failed to do what normally they do, such as administering drug and sobriety tests. The police procedures that allow them to say "he shot and killed a person, but he's got a bloody nose, so you are free to go" are very much inadequate.

I would have thought that killing someone with a gun or knife or almost any manner outside of a car crash would require a trip down to the police station.

As for the cry for help, I've read that when some of the local witnesses who heard it said the boy cried out for help, the police corrected them saying it was Zimmerman.

Not quite sure how they know that since they weren't there when it happened, and are just eating up what Zimmerman told them.

Anyways, if the Stand Your Ground law allows someone to chase another person down shoot them, then give themselves a bloody nose who knows when that happened , then there are serious problems.

This story sounds like Zimmerman is guilty of murder. Tracy Martin, the father of the slain teen, said police told him that Zimmerman's background was "squeaky clean.

That allowed him to legally obtain the weapon he was carrying the night of the shooting. Zimmerman and his father have temporarily left their home, after they were the subject of death threats, according to media reports.

Ku Klux Klan Act wrote: If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured— They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

I want to know more about this 'neighborhood watch' group Federal homicide law generally follows the common law scheme whereby intent can be formed in an instant and the burden of proving mitigation to manslaughter is on the defendant.

S Gun rights types should be running as far away from this guy as possible. This is not the kind of press you want.

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